don, you're well respected by many long term posters and i often value you're insight myself....you're dead wrong (either by design or error) with this line...

donwys-"IMO it was certain facts that drove this stock to where it is now. We just never listened to them."

there have been enough "facts" thrown around by both sides of the fence...it was'nt "facts" that drove this stock to where it is now.....it was a pretty shocking move by ortega, and it was unforeseen by both long and short alike...... the global economy has'nt helped much either......by the same token, was it facts that drove this stock to $6?

in the end, yes, in a "retail environment type market" both "bashing/pumping" can effect the SP to an extent imo (i.e. late 90's, you could move a stock 10% daily with a rumor).....right now i think the effects of bashing/pumping are pretty mute because retail investors are not the ones moving the SP.....