"The debate on whether or not the ETFs are actually buying the metal is irrelevant on the basis of this discussion.

Can't agree. Because:

If the ETFs are in fact buying real bullion, then their activity is sopping up some of the bullion that would otherwise be for sale to investors elsewhere in the world."

Absolutley! However....

"And if they are not buying real bullion, but are in fact just buying futures, then the stampede into the ETFs is part of the reason why the Cartel is getting stuffed."

I don't see it this way my friend. The paper pushers don't budget their paper and there is no limit to the supply. They employ whatever is necessary to push the black box buttons.

If someone takes physical off the market the remaining amount of physical has decreased. If they buy paper, the total amount of paper increases, but the amount of silver for sale remains the same. In the case of physical, silver fundamentals, S/D, get better, asks are filled and the price should rise. In the case of paper, the crooks just get richer, and since paper is the current (albeit stupid) price discovery mechanism, the price of silver goes down.