Soul, you wrote:

"You (Scruffy) trust private companies and doctors and I tend to trust my elected government to serve as a watchdog over greed."

Respectfully, I think your respective trusts are seriously misplaced.

Soul, as I really have no idea, can you tell me what the climate is in Switzerland in terms of medical malpractice lawsuits, judgments and the like. Here, there is much waste in terms of the number of tests ordered by a doctor so as to make sure they have covered every base, and, I don't doubt that there may be a kick back arrangement or two between those who order tests and those who conduct them.

Also, do you have a tremendous amount of illegal immigrants that visit emergency care facilities and use same as their family doctor? Do you have a lot of people that incur health care bills for needed services with no intention to pay, and who are, essentially, judgment proof?

Here, we seem to have a whole lot of all of the above, and so hospitals have to make that up somehow, and, so, literally, the cost of a bandaid or an aspirin could be $20 on a hospital bill. Maybe the hospital collects $3 or $4 of that, it's horribly inefficient all around.

When you consider how many people don't see doctors except on the rarest of occassions, it's difficult to believe that health care insurance should not be workable. But it's not, and without reading one word of this new bill, I don't think it will become workable. It's just something that those that with the good fortune to have good fortunes will have to help out those that don't.

Then you write:

"My remarks re: the Republicans has to do with this... not 1 single Republican saw enough good in the bill to vote for it? Not even 1?"

I know you're in Switzerland, Soul, but really! Not one democrat voted to impeach Clinton? Not one Republican voted not to impeach Clinton? It's ridiculous, but it is that way all too often, and ever since then, the parties have been at each other's throats, just for the sake of being at each other's throats. Didn't one Republican vote for this, Bocieri (sp?) from Ohio? - I could easily be wrong on that, but your point is unassailable, except that it really does go both ways.

But, the way I see it, this bill almost has to work out well for Republicans - based on my view, almost no matter what law is passed, we're (US) screwed on healthcare, but now, Repubs will be able to blame Dems for the mess that shall surely follow, even though there would have followed a mess regardless. Obama must know this, so I give him credit for following his highest of principles, that is to get the uninsured insured, and ignoring his lesser principles of not pandering to various sectors (unabashed pandering, just like all politicians).

I hope this makes it better for everyone, it might, but it's still not going to be good (at least compared to what people with decent jobs had enjoyed).

One final thing - liberals like you tend to be more educated and erudite in their style and presentation. Thus, you always make your points in fine fashion, and, while I'm sure that style annoys the heck out of some, it may sway some who are otherwise fence-sitters on particular issues. However, bottom line, your contempt for the far right wing comes through clearly. I join you on that score, but I raise you by also having equal contempt for the far left.