If you had talked to dale after the meeting, he might have qualified some of his statements to you as he did to Ruf and I. Stope miners are usually the most qualified and they don't use apprentice miners, they use contract miners. It doen't take 25 contract miners to extend a ramp, they are there for production. Dale's statement at the meeting about the cost of contract miners was a generality about their higher production being cheaper in the long run even with the higher wages and bonus. They only make bonus when they produce footage and tonnage regardless of where in the mine they are working.