I did talk to Tim this morning and he said that he was not including the debenture cost in his calculations, however he was only estimating the 120 million based on numbers that are always in flux. So $120 million was only a fairly reasonable educated guess. Another million per quarter might already be part of the number anyway. We talked a while and he sounded much more positive in his tone and demeanor than the last time I talked to him. It sounds like $1450 gold and the cost cutting is starting to make a bit of a difference.