looking at tko for instance, there is a db breakdown so if it doesn't turn there will be more downside so will a faltering copper price bring this on or is it tko and there plan that has had problems. I have been watching ths but very hesitant about copper and tko. Looking at HBM for a future buy. If it comes under 10 that'll be nice. Lots of projects in safe jurisdictions which will be important going ahead.