Cross-exam by Mr Yungwirth from Dr Mihran defendant expert witness
in response to
by
Message: Markman Transcript
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. YUNGWIRTH:
Q Dr. Mihran, if you could turn to Exhibit 3 in your notebook
and specifically to PTO371.
A I'm there.
Q And if you could take a look at figure 1. You
characterized -- do you recall talking about the figure 1
earlier today?
A Yes, I do.
Q Okay.
And do you recall when you were describing what was
disclosed in figure 1, you mentioned that the computer 12
included RAM. Do you recall that?
A Yes.
Q But RAM's not mentioned anywhere in this figure, correct?
A It's not expressly shown in the figure, correct.
Q And the absence from this figure nevertheless you weren't
deterred from giving the opinion that you believed RAM would be
contained in this computer 12, correct?
A In a conventional personal computer, that's correct. And
that was also in the context of the response by the applicants.
I think it's consistent with that.
Q Let's look at the entirety of the patent. The word "RAM's"
never disclosed anywhere in this patent, is it?
BY MR. YUNGWIRTH:
Q Dr. Mihran, if you could turn to Exhibit 3 in your notebook
and specifically to PTO371.
A I'm there.
Q And if you could take a look at figure 1. You
characterized -- do you recall talking about the figure 1
earlier today?
A Yes, I do.
Q Okay.
And do you recall when you were describing what was
disclosed in figure 1, you mentioned that the computer 12
included RAM. Do you recall that?
A Yes.
Q But RAM's not mentioned anywhere in this figure, correct?
A It's not expressly shown in the figure, correct.
Q And the absence from this figure nevertheless you weren't
deterred from giving the opinion that you believed RAM would be
contained in this computer 12, correct?
A In a conventional personal computer, that's correct. And
that was also in the context of the response by the applicants.
I think it's consistent with that.
Q Let's look at the entirety of the patent. The word "RAM's"
never disclosed anywhere in this patent, is it?
A I believe that's correct. I don't believe that the patent
expressly references "RAM."
Q What about "main memory"?
A It does not describe details within the personal computer.
Q It doesn't use the words "main memory," does it?
A No, it does not, to my recollection.
Q But nevertheless, as one of ordinary skill in the art, you
believe that someone would recognize, based on the disclosure
in the patent, that RAM must be in this computer; is that
correct?
A Well, again, a personal computer in a conventional
architecture, and there's no reason to believe that this is
anything other than conventional architecture, would include
RAM as main memory, as indicated by some of the documents we
looked at earlier and that would certainly be consistent with
how a person would understand that.
MR. YUNGWIRTH: Let me strike that, Your Honor.
BY MR. YUNGWIRTH:
Q Can you turn to the '218 patent that we talked about
earlier. It is that same exhibit, PTO0386.
A Yes.
Q Do you recall giving some testimony about this patent as
expressly references "RAM."
Q What about "main memory"?
A It does not describe details within the personal computer.
Q It doesn't use the words "main memory," does it?
A No, it does not, to my recollection.
Q But nevertheless, as one of ordinary skill in the art, you
believe that someone would recognize, based on the disclosure
in the patent, that RAM must be in this computer; is that
correct?
A Well, again, a personal computer in a conventional
architecture, and there's no reason to believe that this is
anything other than conventional architecture, would include
RAM as main memory, as indicated by some of the documents we
looked at earlier and that would certainly be consistent with
how a person would understand that.
MR. YUNGWIRTH: Let me strike that, Your Honor.
BY MR. YUNGWIRTH:
Q Can you turn to the '218 patent that we talked about
earlier. It is that same exhibit, PTO0386.
A Yes.
Q Do you recall giving some testimony about this patent as
Q Can you point to me where in this patent the word "NOR
flash," or the term "NOR flash" can be found?
A I don't recall that the text of the patent characterized it
as NOR. But the -- it's well known that characteristic of this
configuration of flash is, is referred to as NOR. And it's
clear that it is this, provides this type of individual memory
location addressability.
Q So there's nothing in the extrinsic record that
characterizes this as NOR flash; isn't that correct?
MR. O'SHEA: Objection, Your Honor. I think he meant
MR. YUNGWIRTH: I'm sorry. I did mean to say
"intrinsic" record. I'll rephrase.
BY MR. YUNGWIRTH:
Q So there's nothing in the intrinsic record that
characterizes this as NOR flash; isn't that correct?
A Using that specific acronym? Is that your question?
Q My question is there's nothing in the intrinsic record that
characterizes this as NOR flash; isn't that correct?
A Well, I'm sorry, the word "characterizes." I'm not clear
if you mean expressly using that N-O-R acronym. Certainly the
configuration of the flash memory that's depicted in the
figures, for example figure 2 and some of the other
description, makes it apparent that it is that type of flash.
Q Well, would you agree with me that this discussion of this
flash," or the term "NOR flash" can be found?
A I don't recall that the text of the patent characterized it
as NOR. But the -- it's well known that characteristic of this
configuration of flash is, is referred to as NOR. And it's
clear that it is this, provides this type of individual memory
location addressability.
Q So there's nothing in the extrinsic record that
characterizes this as NOR flash; isn't that correct?
MR. O'SHEA: Objection, Your Honor. I think he meant
MR. YUNGWIRTH: I'm sorry. I did mean to say
"intrinsic" record. I'll rephrase.
BY MR. YUNGWIRTH:
Q So there's nothing in the intrinsic record that
characterizes this as NOR flash; isn't that correct?
A Using that specific acronym? Is that your question?
Q My question is there's nothing in the intrinsic record that
characterizes this as NOR flash; isn't that correct?
A Well, I'm sorry, the word "characterizes." I'm not clear
if you mean expressly using that N-O-R acronym. Certainly the
configuration of the flash memory that's depicted in the
figures, for example figure 2 and some of the other
description, makes it apparent that it is that type of flash.
Q Well, would you agree with me that this discussion of this
which is the discussion of this '218 patent. There's nothing
in there that says this is main memory, correct?
A That's correct. It does not say that here.
Q And if you actually look at the entirety of the '774
patent, the word "RAM" doesn't appear anywhere in there,
either, does it?
A That's correct. The word "RAM" does not appear.
Q And main memory doesn't appear anywhere, does it?
A Not in the specification, but extensively in the
prosecution history, as we described earlier.
Q Excuse me?
A Sure.
Q It doesn't appear in the claims, either, does it?
A When you say "it," "main memory," is that the question?
Q Yes.
A The term "main memory" does not appear in the claims,
that's correct.
Q And if you take a look at the figures, the term "main
memory" doesn't appear anywhere there, either, does it?
A The term "main memory" does not appear, nor does "flash,"
nor does "RAM" of any kind appear in that figure.
Q And if we could go farther back in Exhibit 3, starting at
PTO0103. And continuing on to PTO0115.
Q Do you understand what this document is?
A This appears to be an office action from the patent office.
in there that says this is main memory, correct?
A That's correct. It does not say that here.
Q And if you actually look at the entirety of the '774
patent, the word "RAM" doesn't appear anywhere in there,
either, does it?
A That's correct. The word "RAM" does not appear.
Q And main memory doesn't appear anywhere, does it?
A Not in the specification, but extensively in the
prosecution history, as we described earlier.
Q Excuse me?
A Sure.
Q It doesn't appear in the claims, either, does it?
A When you say "it," "main memory," is that the question?
Q Yes.
A The term "main memory" does not appear in the claims,
that's correct.
Q And if you take a look at the figures, the term "main
memory" doesn't appear anywhere there, either, does it?
A The term "main memory" does not appear, nor does "flash,"
nor does "RAM" of any kind appear in that figure.
Q And if we could go farther back in Exhibit 3, starting at
PTO0103. And continuing on to PTO0115.
Q Do you understand what this document is?
A This appears to be an office action from the patent office.
And I believe that the testimony has shown and I'd like to
confirm that your understanding is this is a summary record
prepared by examiner Doerrler following the interview that she
had with Mr. Norris and Mr. North; is that your understanding?
A I apologize. I think I misheard your PTO number reference.
Could you give me that number again.
Q 0118.
A Yes, I understand this to be an examiner interview summary
record.
Q And in this examiner summary record, the examiner did not
use the term "main memory," did she?
A The words "main memory" do not appear in this particular
form.
Q And the examiner did not use the word "RAM" in this
summary, did she?
A Not in this particular form, that's correct.
Q Examiner didn't use the term "primary storage," did she?
A Not expressly, no.
Q And didn't use the term "secondary storage," did she?
A Those words are not here, that's correct.
Q And in fact, if you were to look at the entire prosecution
history, the terms "primary storage" and "secondary storage"
don't appear anywhere in there, do they?
A I believe the term that the applicants used was "main
memory" for primary memory. I'm sorry, primary storage.
confirm that your understanding is this is a summary record
prepared by examiner Doerrler following the interview that she
had with Mr. Norris and Mr. North; is that your understanding?
A I apologize. I think I misheard your PTO number reference.
Could you give me that number again.
Q 0118.
A Yes, I understand this to be an examiner interview summary
record.
Q And in this examiner summary record, the examiner did not
use the term "main memory," did she?
A The words "main memory" do not appear in this particular
form.
Q And the examiner did not use the word "RAM" in this
summary, did she?
A Not in this particular form, that's correct.
Q Examiner didn't use the term "primary storage," did she?
A Not expressly, no.
Q And didn't use the term "secondary storage," did she?
A Those words are not here, that's correct.
Q And in fact, if you were to look at the entire prosecution
history, the terms "primary storage" and "secondary storage"
don't appear anywhere in there, do they?
A I believe the term that the applicants used was "main
memory" for primary memory. I'm sorry, primary storage.
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