PYPR, I stand corrected, thanx. Doc there is no 8Q:only an 8K. I knew this but I got my-----are you ready for another "state side" expression---P's and Q's --or should I say--- K's and Q's mixed,--- Bill. More than likely you don't use that expression in the UK because it is derived from "pints and quarts", and since you use the metric system of weights and measures, P's ans Q's is probably "foreign" to you.