Good evening my friends: regarding bells, one of the accompanying stories of Tayopa is that one of the resident Jesuits of Tayopa cast bells. This would be in the late 1500's -> early 1600's.

Aprox. 15 miles to the north of Tayopa, on the same mt range / Mesa, lies the area known as "La Mesa del campanero.- The Mesa of the Bell maker". There are bits of copper slag to be found here and there. Some day I will run down the source of the copper and the other metales used in the bell alloy.

I originally started looking for Tayopa upon hearing, but not personally seeing, that Yeager, an American mining engineer, had purchased a small hand bell with "Guadalupe de Tayopa "cast on it's rim shortly before dying.. All attempts to locate it were in vain, it had been sent to relatives in Los Angles along with his other personal effects. There the trail seems to have died, I did not persue it since it had served it's purpose of establishing that Tayopa had existed..

Later while on the trail to a sister lost mine "The Gloria Pan" I ended up at Tubares. The mission had been abandoned, there was no one within miles, but the Church itself was basically intact. It had a brass baptismal bowl with the lid hinged in the center of a brass alloy, approx 4 ft in diameter.

In the tower, which was separate from the main building, there were 24 small bells. Upon investigating I found two large bells crudely hung at the entrance to the grave yard. approx 200 meters away. They were similar, about 4 ft in dia at the rim.

I do not remember exactly what was cast on the rims, but one was "In penitence", and the name of a woman with 17?? The other was in the name of a man.

I later was told by a passing Indian that the original church had been destroyed when the river changed it's course. He also told me that another large bell was in the river bed buried in the sand.

At that time I was completely alone except for my mule for almost two weeks. Now it has a road and an Indian village there.

If I can ever find it in my notes, I will post the data and pictures. There are many blank sections of "Bell casting in the Americas".

Don Jose de La Mancha

***********

Hi Real de Tayopa! "

Thank you for sharing your stories.

Is this the Tubares mission you were at?

I'll be in your area doing some work in the future. Do you mind if we hook up and try to go locate that large bell in the river bed sand? I'll pay for the expedition, but I'll need you to be the guide!

Thank you again for contributing to this thread!

**************

Good afternoon ELLE: no, it doesn't appear to be, but then it has been a few years. he he .

You posted -->

"Do you mind if we hook up and try to go locate that large bell in the river bed sand? I'll pay for the expedition, but I'll need you to be the guide!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) That depends upon many things, some are out of my immediate control. On the trip expenses, no problem, I can easily hold up my own. As for directions, I can tell you more or less where to look, but not exactly, no one can today. The original Church was in the present river channel, in front of the present Church. which was supposedly a convent then. Of course it has been enlarged for the present church.

The best time for that, is in late June, a window of perhaps two weeks. The Rio Fuerte wasn't called that without reason. I have seen it 100 ft deep and 3/4 of a mile across. Incidentally, this stretch of the river in front of the Church was where I saw that aquatic serpent, of approx. 80 ft, about 1 meter thick . I never swam across the river nude again.

When I was there, I was looking for the 'SUN' which is on the north side of the river. This played crucial part in proving the existence of the Gloria Pan mine which I eventually found. Long story there.

After the Indian uprising had been subdued, they were constructing a new mission on top of the ridge to the north, between Tubares and Temoris. It was to be named for one of the priests that had been killed in the uprising. The Jesuits kept in Contact by fires at night, and mirrors in the day.

Since they had an altar, which had been brought from Michoacan for the new mission, I assume that they also had a bell, which might be interesting. All of these things are stored in the second level of the Gloria Pan mine. Yes, I have found the site of the new Mission, I believe that I am the only one alive that knows of it and where it is. The cut blocks were 2 ft square.

It is a fascinating area.

Attached is some interesting data for you to play with. all questions will be happily answered, I have nothing to hide.

The bell from my Mine, TAYOPA, lies about one day's journey East from Tayopa. It is in a closed tunnel, but I am going to open it soon. I will let you know when I see it.

Don Jose de La Mancha (Joseph Curry)

***********************

Good afternoon ELLE: no, it doesn't appear to be, but then it has been a few years. he he .

You posted -->

"Do you mind if we hook up and try to go locate that large bell in the river bed sand? I'll pay for the expedition, but I'll need you to be the guide!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) That depends upon many things, some are out of my immediate control. On the trip expenses, no problem, I can easily hold up my own. As for directions, I can tell you more or less where to look, but not exactly, no one can today. The original Church was in the present river channel, in front of the present Church. which was supposedly a convent then. Of course it has been enlarged for the present church.

The best time for that, is in late June, a window of perhaps two weeks. The Rio Fuerte wasn't called that without reason. I have seen it 100 ft deep and 3/4 of a mile across. Incidentally, this stretch of the river in front of the Church was where I saw that aquatic serpent, of approx. 80 ft, about 1 meter thick . I never swam across the river nude again.

When I was there, I was looking for the 'SUN' which is on the north side of the river. This played crucial part in proving the existence of the Gloria Pan mine which I eventually found. Long story there.

After the Indian uprising had been subdued, they were constructing a new mission on top of the ridge to the north, between Tubares and Temoris. It was to be named for one of the priests that had been killed in the uprising. The Jesuits kept in Contact by fires at night, and mirrors in the day.

Since they had an altar, which had been brought from Michoacan for the new mission, I assume that they also had a bell, which might be interesting. All of these things are stored in the second level of the Gloria Pan mine. Yes, I have found the site of the new Mission, I believe that I am the only one alive that knows of it and where it is. The cut blocks were 2 ft square.

It is a fascinating area.

Attached is some interesting data for you to play with. all questions will be happily answered, I have nothing to hide.

The bell from my Mine, TAYOPA, lies about one day's journey East from Tayopa. It is in a closed tunnel, but I am going to open it soon. I will let you know when I see it.

Don Jose de La Mancha (Joseph Curry)

*******************

ELLE LUV: Did those pictures bring back memories, sigh. I was particularly pleased to see the two large bells that I spoke of. The last time that I saw them, they were at the entrance to the grave yard.

On the grave yard picture, if you project your sight to the back low hill, there is a small cement (local) tank near the bottom with a three step style to enter / leave. There is a tunnel from the grave yard to it, which has a fired brick roof. I don't remember where the northern entrance was, but it could be back tracked. This was a common practice in those days as an escape feature.

You must remember that it was in 1957 when I was last there. It was completely isolated and alone, no roads. Sigh, how it has changed. It took me 4 days by mule from Chinapas to reach it. 1 day to Temoris, another to La Reforma, another to the home of Agustin Bacera, then another to Tubares.

As for Ceracahui, it consisted of the Church and 5 houses when I first arrived there. Now even roads. sheesh. Check the church and it's bells for very interesting stories.

I entered Urique in Feb 1956 returning from a couple of months of exploring the Barranca de Cobre by myself. After 3 days being soaking wet on the trail, I was muddy, unkempt, with a scraggy beard, and as usual in those days, with a .357 S&W magnum pistol at my side. I must have been a pretty sight. In any event, most were drunk on the celebration, and probably never noticed, but gave me a hearty welcome. hhehe. Again, there were probably only a handful of intact houses.

Now they even have tours from Ceracahui.

**************

I remembered that I met Lupe vega who helped me with the Gloria pan mine investigation. He arranged for me to go to Jorge Juan's cabin in the Gloria Pan barranca. I had a young couple of Tarahumaras that agreed to act as my guides.

We went afoot since I was in prime condition and figured that i would have no problem with a young couple, that to me were kiddies, sheesh was I wrong. I left my mule and sleeping gear at Tubares since there was no grazing up there, and carried only 35 lbs - after all, it was only for one day..

The young couple in their teens, promptly ran up the hill and disappeared. I staggered on trying to catch up with them, near the verge of a heart attack, and finally stumbled over the rim where i had last seen them, I saw them wrestling (?) in the grass. As soon as they saw me, they jumped up laughing, and RAN up to the next crest. This was repeated at least a 'billion' times that first day. sigh

Then to add to my woes, it started to rain, a cold penetrating rain with wind. sheesh I was beginning to feel sorry for myself and wonder why or how I ever became involved with exploration and lost mines. As for my guides they appeared just as happy as if they had good sense.

We stayed in a cave that night where I warmed up a bit. The next day was an even worse repetition of the first, if possible. The boy called to me and pointing to a cleft in the ridge above us, fairly close to the Gates of Heaven, and said that was where I had to go. From there it would drop down into the barranca of the Gloria Pan. All that I had to do was to go down the barranca until I saw Jorge Juan's cabin. simple enough, no? As They then 'ran' off giggling and playing, I overheard a remark on how i had slowed them up from a two hour 'walk' to two day one??

The 'next' Day, about dusk, I finally saw a small one room brush covered shack and stumbled to the door, where with numb fingers I tapped on the door. No response, so I repeated the knocking, still no response, so I started kicking the damn door, it swung open. There was no-one there, so I entered.

It was by now dark, my matches were wet, and after three days of stumbling through cold gusty rain, continuously wet, I was trembling with cold and beat. All I could think of was getting warm and to sleep. There was just enough light to let me see a broken cot with a sleeping bag on it. Without further ado I crawled into it. sheesh it was so dirty and greasy that it was stiff as a frozen sail , but it did get me warm and I went to sleep listening to the wind howl, shake the cabin, and the roar of the rising arroyo.

The next morning it was bright and sunny, so after starting a fire and cooking breakfast, I returned to liking the life of an explorer and commenced searching the cabin. it was litterally full of junk, from mining equipment, to books and pages of notes. Being nosey, I quickly found why my unwilling host was gone. He had formented an uprising against the Mission in the 30's, He was called the "Arab". The gov't was still looking for him, There were vague references to a Priest having been killed. He had been involved in several murders and had lately been shot in the stomach, but recovered. This was my unwilling host, sheesh.

This is your job Elle, check on this.


Anyway, I quickly found what fit the sealed entrance of La gloria Pan mine and decided to return to El fuerte, where my friend and partner was waiting, so that he could be there when we opened it. That part you already know. About this time an Indian arrived with my sleeping gear, so I returned to Tubares with him.

Incidentally the return trip only took 1/2 a day ?

So Elle, dig up what you can about this mini, aborted uprising. But remember, the Gloria Pan was closed in the 1600's, along with Tayopa, Tepoca, Las pimas, LaTarasca, and two others near Caborca.
This also includes El Fuego de Barras (?) south west of Tubares.

Side thingie, to the East from the bell tower, on the south side of the river, there is a small rock walled corral. Check it with a metal detector. During the last rev. a gov't pay roll officer, with his escort ,were caught by the rebels and took refuge in there. They were all killed but the pay roll as never found. It is probably buried in there . It was claimed to be mostly gold, but this I doubt, since even a single peso was a large amount of money in those days, still the silver would be worth quite a bit and could go to help restoring the Mission.


Thank you Jason, as usual it is Elle's fault. This is a fill in for her project.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Hi Ellie: ever get to Tubares last june? If so did you find the large bell in the river bottom that I told you about?

Don Jose de La Mancha

(3)